Overcoming Addiction and Finding Purpose
with @thepeopledispleaser Nick Pollard
While in active addition, Nick Pollard was able to launch several companies, thrive as a successful entrepreneur and even work as a dating coach. In 2018, he had a near-death experience that prompted him to fully commit to recovery work, embarking on a journey of self-reflection and questioning identity beyond addiction.
In this powerful episode of Consequence of Habit, host JT speaks with Nick about his personal journey overcoming childhood trauma and addiction through relentless self-reflection. Nick discusses ongoing challenges staying present and not people-pleasing, as well as finding purpose beyond others' expectations. Nick provides insightful perspectives on using habits, honesty and social media productively.
In his recovery, Nick is focused on the importance of embracing love, mortality and simplicity in living intentionally. This raw and authentic conversation provides inspiration and guidance for anyone facing addiction or seeking fulfillment in life.
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Nick Pollard 0:00
If you make a habit out of seeking you, you will find you. But it's something you have to do every day. Because you are elusive. People don't realize that they are elusive, and who you are is ever changing. So don't think that the person you found yesterday is going to be who you find today because you'd learn something every minute your life.
JT 0:18
I love talking to people, I say a lot of time people have lived on both sides of the habit spectrum, right? Let's talk about the side that that was the people pleaser, that was the guy with alcohol misuse issues, or whatever we want to call it this week. Let's talk about that. And then we'll
Nick Pollard 0:38
come up in a book and being drunk, right. By the way, I love that the way he said that is there's always you know, there's a new moniker for everything every single week with regard to like, what's acceptable and what's not acceptable? So, so to answer your question, I guess we're going to tell my story a little bit.
JT 1:00
I think I just yeah, it's irrelevant,
Nick Pollard 1:04
probably irrelevant. So I didn't come from nowhere, I had a, I had what I remembered for many years to be a very good childhood. And at one point, in my 20s, that turned out to not be true. And so when you bury the kinds of memories that are buried, it changes you, like on a fundamental kind of molecular level. And I've never said it that way. So that's kind of a challenge for me right now, actually. But so I want you to imagine the worst thing you can think of your dad doing to you. And that's what happened, right? And through that timeline, not that I didn't remember, some things had kind of come to light my family. And then I did remember, right, so I was 29 years old. I had one kid and another on the way. And my life completely fell apart. Like, I mean, everything I lost my house, it was my wife wasn't the cars, everything. And that was a result of, you know, kind of severe childhood trauma. I ended up in a mental institution for a bit of time, suicidal and homicidal tendencies. And I was I was ready to kill somebody. Yeah, right. And when you go through that, and you're 29, and you and you had emotionally immature parents, one of which was highly abusive, and the other which was, you know, emotionally mature, and kind of, you know, focused on her own thing, which is fine. My mom and I are good now. But it's just the reality of my childhood. And I had no coping skills for this, like, I had no ability. I didn't know how to hit the ejection handle, I didn't know how to, to write the ship. Right. So the best way I thought to do that was to drink a lot. So I did. And right, and then, you know, drinking, if you if you do that, right, if you do drinking as a as a modality for numbing pain, you do that? Well, that generally turns into use of any type of stimulant in addition to right, because then you can't drink enough otherwise your party stops. And then yeah, so you know, the drinking turned into cocaine and, and that lasted for about about a year. I got got a little better, right, I met my my third wife, by the way, not great at getting great at getting married. Not so great at staying that way. Anyway, I met my third wife, and, and I kind of gotten better done some done some therapy, I'd done some healing. And I was I would say that I was probably teetering, you know, it was kind of at the breaking point between two, you know, relatively toxic extremes. And that was in 2016. And I had kind of gained some weight and I wasn't in the best shape and things were, it was a little dicey. Right. But then my dad died. Right? So then all of those wounds, like, just leave me waste. And I went right off the fucking demon, like, right over the fucking falls like Houdini lurk where the other guy, whatever the Niagara Falls Anyway, whatever the falls. And the next thing I know, it's six months later, so he died in May. I was drinking a lot, like a lot. That kind of kicked me into a into a, let's say, 15 drinks a day kind of habit. And then that drink, you know, that kind of, and then it just started leveling up. So it was 15 drinks a day and 16 and 17. Now,
JT 4:44
I've heard you talk about being in sales, and you're obviously great at communicating. And I know we're gonna get into people pleasing part of that, but were you still holding a job? Are you at least just on the surface successful to some portion of Yeah, yeah. Oh, it
Nick Pollard 5:04
more so than probably I'd ever bet. Yeah. Right. So this is this is the weird part is so I'd wanted to be an entrepreneur my whole life I've been a coach since 2009, even when I was drinking, I was a coach. So I've been coaching for a long time. And then during that time I, you know, from oh nine until really, I guess 15 I had kind of stayed in the coaching field kind of in and out. I had launched two companies, one did well, one didn't, it was great idea just, you know, poorly executed wrong people. It was kind of a misfit for my time in life. I needed to not be a drunk to make that work. But I was a dating coach, and I did exceptionally well and managed to get rid of that company. And then 2015 I lost my job at a software sales company, not because I was a drunk, but because I was really good at it. Actually, I was I figured out how to hack the system and created a way that I can do my job in like five minutes every single day.
JT 6:01
That's a bad scenario for somebody with a training problem.
Nick Pollard 6:06
Right? Well, it's a real bad scenario, but I made it work for six months. But what they were mad about was that my hours were low, and my production was high. So they ended up letting me go. And so I went to work. This was I went to work. Driving a bike bar. I don't know. Have you ever seen a bike bar? I've
JT 6:25
seen a bike in Nashville. So yeah. Oh, you live in Nashville? No, no, I've been asked about 1000 other things. Yeah. Yeah.
Nick Pollard 6:33
So I used to, I used to drive one of those. So I got a job driving bike bars. It was a great job. There's a lot of fun. She bought one can imagine for somebody who likes to drink this problem, right? So I'm just you know, all weekend, and I just made great money. I was making like 1500 bucks a week. So you know, here I am making all this money. And you know, it's all in cash. So you know, that's the equivalent of making 2000 bucks a week. And it was great, right? Well, fast forward to the end of the season. And I've done pretty well. But I thought I could do better. And I've managed to kind of weasel my way into this deal. Where I could buy a bike bar for myself with no money down, right. So I bought one. And I started and I started a competitive company in Denver, to my old bosses. Okay, well, I'm also not dumb. And I realized they had been in the business for a long time. So I I invested I took it didn't have any money in the bike, except for I had to repair the hell out of it. Because it was brand new. It was it was brand spankin new used. And it was in rough shape when it showed up. So I had to like paint it and I couldn't do all this welding and I had to rebuild it. It was a disaster. Anyway. So I go through all this. And I took all the money that I had made. And I had pre sold before it even showed up. All these bike bar tours on Groupon. So I had like five weeks of revenue that was already built into this thing by the time it showed up. So I was under the gun when it got there. And of course, I'm drinking and I'm working and I'm drinking and I'm working on I'm drinking in the morning, and I finally got to Well, anyway, I launched that company. And I took all that money. And I put it into advertising through Google and you know, pay per click and all that stuff. And I just crushed everybody like I've just decimated my competition. So much so that they weren't giving me referrals for sending business to them. Wow. So they were paying for my marketing at this point. Amazing. Right? So in the so that ended up I bought another bike and I bought another bike three of them. The company was doing, I don't know. 750 a year, which is not bad for a little entertainment.
JT 8:43
Brian around a bike with some booze. It's pretty good. Right? Right
Nick Pollard 8:46
for getting drunk all day long. Anyway, so that company, and I did pretty well for about three years, but this is the least so that happened in 15. And then 16 My old man dies. And once again, my life goes off the fucking rails. And I just, I mean, I went to the bottle hard. Like it was like booze and coke. That's what we're doing. Like, that's how we're getting through the summer. Because it like he died in May. I had an entire summer of my parts to run. Right? And that goes from like May until the end of October every day, all day. 12 hours a day. Do you
JT 9:24
even remember? Do you remember that period? Loosely.
Nick Pollard 9:29
I mean, not. Not great. Yeah,
JT 9:31
I mean, even if you do it's not I can imagine it's a great. You'd be in it. Yeah, it seems like a really shitty really long game. It's a hell of
Nick Pollard 9:41
a lot of fun. I'll admit that. I had a lot of fun. Yeah. You know, that was 16 You know, the day my dad died is also the day my marriage ended which is interesting. Right, those are those are rough day. Anyway, so yeah, it was very successful in that endeavor. But that that really kicked me into you know, we don't I have to go through the whole story after that, like 16 1718, I just drank for the whole time. You know, it was brutal.
JT 10:08
I heard you talking about, you know, AI, there's a rock bottom, and then there's like, hey, you know, I'm living in my mom's, my mom's basement. I needed help, I end up getting help, and you get you get sober. There's some ups and downs in that process. But everything that I hear you speak about, going back to what I said in the beginning, the reason I believe it resonates with people is how raw and authentic it feels. Now you've you've even said, I was listening, I was coaching I was I was I had I had a dating coaching thing. You know, you're on your third marriage at that point, right? You're coaching during this entire time. What was that feeling like? And this is the only reason I'm asking you this, right. So like I said, I've got a podcast called a consequence of habit. I run a nonprofit called the same under the same title. And struggle at times when, and like, I talked to some amazing people on here. If I'm not following through, and to be 100%, honest, I just went through a period where I mean, I considered I relapsed, I didn't drink, but my mindset, right, like I know, a very familiar feeling of what that feels like escaping, not wanting to like, you know, not being present. Putting stuff out there that I know is not not authentic, you know? So I asked that question not to say, Hey, I got you probably more to go. Were you feeling the same way I'm describing now? When you are coaching these things that was there? Could you compartmentalize I know, I'm so like I can tell you to do if you do what I tell you to do, things are gonna go great. That doesn't mean I need to follow them. I'm not. I'm not sure about now, Nick. I honestly, I want to make sure I'm phrasing this in the correct way. He's
Nick Pollard 12:13
sure. Well, I'll make you a deal. How about this, if you if you piss me off, I'll tell
JT 12:17
you that. There we go. There we go. The people displeased, and I appreciate that. Because that's not just
Nick Pollard 12:24
don't go nuts and swing for the fences. And if I get my feelings hurt a lot, you know. So to answer your question, there's really no answer because, like, my dating coaching practice was probably one of the most fun times of my life. Like he was one of the most fun times I ever had in my life. I was drunk a lot of that time. Okay. Right. I was also married a good chunk of that time.
JT 12:50
Okay. All right. Fair enough.
Nick Pollard 12:51
So if you take a people pleaser, and you put in you pour alcohol on top of them, what do you get?
JT 12:59
You get a really confident people, please, I don't I don't know. Well,
Nick Pollard 13:02
if you take so think of it like a cocktail. Okay, so let's say I take vodka, and I take people pleasing it, but people pleasing and one of those shakers jars and it puts a buck on top of it. Shake it up. I can tell you the exact cocktail gacha it's a narcissist. Okay,
JT 13:16
well, there you go. You answer my question. Right.
Nick Pollard 13:19
So I believed I was doing everything right.
JT 13:23
So I guess real question was, when did you realize you weren't? And I guess I almost want to I don't know if I can answer for you. Maybe that was that was when you went? I don't know, if you did a 12 step, whatever process you went through, because I hear brutal truth in what you say. You know, and I like that podcast.
Nick Pollard 13:44
Well, the the short answer to when did I realize that? I was Did I realized I was a fraud? Or did I? Or when did I realize I
JT 13:52
had a problem? I guess the problem would have to come first or no? Well, so realistically,
Nick Pollard 13:57
you know, I think fraud is dictated by my would be my inability to deliver what I say I was going to deliver I always delivered what I said I was going to deliver, right I said you're gonna have fun on the bike. She had fun on the bikes. I said you were going to get dates you were going to get dates like I delivered. So I was never fraudulent in that. It's just that I was I was an imposter in my own life because I couldn't live the things I was teaching. Now
JT 14:20
it was it's just a better choice for word. Yeah, and imposter. So I
Nick Pollard 14:25
was I was I had created a character as a dating coach, which is what most dating coaches do, by the way, and it's really good for somebody who doesn't want to be themself. Right? And if you if you combine that with alcohol, what you get is it kind of rampant, overwhelming narcissism, and that's what I was. Right? Well, in 2018. I was at a bar. Shout out to the retro room in Denver. They're still there. They're good friends. And I was it was it was load o'clock in the morning. I think it was April 16 or 17. would have been in the 16. Maybe, because that was a kind of my last day. So my first day sober was the 17th of April. And I'll never forget it. I had woke it up next to somebody who I love very much still to this day. He's a good friend of mine. And she had put her hand on my chest, she could hear my heart beating, and she's like, are you okay? And I said, No, I'm really sick. And I laughed, I said, I guess I'll go to the bar. And she was, she was like me, you know, we're both pretty sick. And, and that's what it did. And I went into the bar, and I sat down, ordered a burger and ordered my drink. And it's probably about 930. And at that point, I'm drinking double vodka soda. Is it at 9am in the morning, 930 in the morning. All right. double dot double vodka soda with a Jameson back. So that's stout cocktail.
JT 15:53
going hard, the pain at that point, right.
Nick Pollard 15:57
And I had a burger. burger at 930 in the morning. And sitting there. This is what I did every day. Like, this was my deal. And there was this brief flicker. And I'll never forget, it was like a flicker of light that kind of came through the windows. To my right. And I don't know what caused it or where it came from. It reminded me of like, Flash, like, like a bomb going off. I was looking at the bar, I saw the flicker, something that my mind changed, and I went, Oh, shit, I'm gonna die here. Like it just like I'm dying. And really took me back and was like, okay, all right, we're okay. Kind of steady my hand. I'm like, Alright, we're not dead. But we are dying. Is that what we're deciding to do? Is that the decision we're making? If we're making that decision today, let's just keep doing this. It's okay. At that point is like, it's okay. Like, either way. We're deciding to die. Let's die. Right? Let's just take it, let's just go out the drink in our hand, and a laugh of their friends. Let's just send it or do we need to live. And somehow, my brain killed up, you know, came back online for two seconds, like, Whoa, let's live. Live is good. Live was better, is what my brain said. And I was like, Alright, I guess we're gonna live then. And I pick up the phone, I call my mom and I said, Mom, I need to sell everything I own. I need you to cancel my lease on my apartment, do whatever it takes to cancel it. Move me into your second bedroom. And he just dropped me into a detox center today. And she said, Okay, I'll be there in 20 minutes. Took her an hour. At which point, I was like, so I had a few more drinks. I was waiting to get it in. I mean, I went to the bar next door, had another burger head for more shots. So when I checked into detox, I blew up point six or no is a point eight. By the way, the legal drinking limit for driving an automobile is point all the
JT 18:12
way down. Are you coming in? Full octane you are?
Nick Pollard 18:16
The doctor looked at me and goes, How are you even breathing. It's just who I am now. It took me four days to blow zero to get out there. That was one of the worst times of my life and places like a jail. You know, I don't recommend Denver detox. By the way. Denver Health is not the place to go do that. So hospital. And then that put me to rehab. And then rehab is kind of when the journey really started.
JT 18:40
I've heard you talk about doing work on yourself. Right? And it's taken a lot of time to do that. This isn't about me, but my story wasn't quite you know, everyone has their bottom. I'm sure mine. You know, I almost felt like half a half a drunk when I when I quit because I would go and I would hear these stories of people that have like, their lives fucking imploded. Like, I'm going alright, well, I'm not that guy. Like, you know,
Nick Pollard 19:07
I'm not enough of a piece of shit to be in this room. Yeah,
JT 19:10
that's right. I'm like, you know, I drink too much. Which means makes me feel like crap. I'm for some reason I feel like crap in this room. You didn't drink enough? Like it's a weird dynamic, but you reach your rock bottom. And as you start to see things, the cause of an effect, right, without going into specifics, and then how that relates to people pleasing. At what point did you you know, going through the 12 steps, whatever it was, were you like, oh, wait, maybe this is the reason I do this. Not that it matters. And I've heard you talk about like before, like it doesn't fucking matter. Right, right. But at what point did you go? Alright, I guess that was a reasonable response for what I went through. Now. I gotta do something about it.
Nick Pollard 19:58
2020 One
JT 20:02
645 2020. So, yeah, so
Nick Pollard 20:05
what happened was in rehab, I have a really good student, and I'm a really good participant in group therapy. And I'm also really good coach, very talented at this. And I saw some gaps in the coverage at the rehab center as I was kind of exiting. And I said that to the ownership. It's like, Hey, I see that you're some holes or some holes here. I could plug, yeah, give me like a couple of days, I'll put together a proposal, bring it back to you and kind of walk you through how I do that. She said, Okay, great. I did that. And as I graduated from rehab and walked out the client door, I turned around, walked in the staff door. So I was like teaching in the rehab center the day after I left. And that, well, it's a terrible
JT 20:46
fucking idea, by the way for you. Why is that a bad it's a bad idea. I
Nick Pollard 20:51
didn't know how to do so. But I didn't know who I was. Right? Anybody who's newly sober knows that like, Well, no, they don't know that. But they know that after about three years being sober that the first three years you don't know how you are. And you don't find out immediately, like if you look at the sobriety journey, for most people, it starts in Alcoholics Anonymous. And most of the time, if you stick with the stick with the program, you you'll get there, like you get to a year you get 18 months, nearly hit some bumps along the way, potentially, you'll figure it out over time. But the reason that they give you these those chips every year, is actually I don't know if you know this, but Napoleon was the first person to give away war medals. And he gave them away when people were making fun of him. They said men don't care about trinkets. He said, I died. I disagree that men live for trinkets, and toys, right? So the reason they give you those is because you're not finding who you are. You're just staying sober. You're just not doing a thing and you need a constant thing to shoot for in order to get there. And that's part of why AAA and I don't work well together anymore. It's because I don't see the value in the whole system. But to say all that is to say that I wasn't ready to take the responsibility for other people's sobriety, whether it was their sobriety or mine. I wasn't ready for the responsibility of that. And it was my own hubris that got me the job.
JT 22:21
I'm going to guess because it's sales. You're great people you're you're at a good people pleaser. Yeah. Which means you're probably pretty freakin good at reading people.
Nick Pollard 22:30
Yeah, and I'm an exceptional liar. That hurt a little. Yeah, I
JT 22:35
mean, yeah, I mean, I get it. I like, the reason I reached out to you is like, I mean, there's parts of me. Yeah, you know, you know your own. I mean, I could shoot in the first 10 seconds before we hit record. You I could, you know, you know, you know, I could I could
Nick Pollard 22:49
tell. Right.
JT 22:53
There we go. Right. How much of this am I gonna have to edit? I'm choking, because we're gonna we could go into some some places. So yeah, sure. Yeah.
Nick Pollard 23:01
So what happened was in that arc of a story is I ended up in a relationship with somebody that's pretty toxic. And because I was pretty toxic, we had one of those white hot romances. Yeah. Do you have when you're newly sober, like, everything's great, and you fuck better and I'm good and bad anyway, and I was really good sober. And so we kind of went through that and then we lasted about two and a half years. And then they all ended in 2021. So I went through COVID Incidentally, so we had had this kind of drinking binge for a year and then we went through COVID Totally so
JT 23:34
you guys get it all wrong.
Nick Pollard 23:35
We did it all wrong. Should Drink the whole time. So 21 rolls up as January 11. Incidentally, I guess the 11th is big day for me that was you know anyhow, I got sober again on the beach here in Huntington Beach. With his AAA meeting and tower 13 I think tower 11 Tower lemon. Here nice beach still there. It's really good meeting and they're good people but they got me sober that day. And here's a boost but then that I started to really question like, What is this? Like? Why am I struggling so fucking much to keep these keep this on the real so what is the actual problem? I've been a coach long enough to ask myself the question like, What am I drinking about rather than why do I drink? And that was a big question. Like, what am I drinking about? It was like, you know, you hate your life. I'm like, Why do I hate my life? I make a lot of money. I had a nice house and a nice car. I bought an RV and renovated it like I really cool stuff. You know, my girlfriend's hot and we were swingers and like, all the you know, all the outward things like got it and I realized, I think all the ones that I had, I had been living somebody else's life. Right. And that really hurt. Like a lot. Yeah. I get hurt really bad to realize that, like, I'd spent 41 years, you know, trying to be something my dad would like, yeah, try to be something that my mom would be proud of her. And I never stopped and asked myself what do I want? And, you know, went through this kind of three month period, well, the first month of that kind of drink and you know how that sobriety journey looks I was the only thing I could do is roll out of bed and eat sour patch kids like that was on COVID unemployment still, and I'm like, documented I am living in this terrible Airbnb and in Orange County here in Huntington Beach is not terrible. It's just kind of a kind of a shack, and it's, it's a mess. But it's, it's our mess. And so, there's March 16, I think, of 21. I got a bug up my ass. And I was I've been sober for two months, three months, I guess. And I was sitting in my, in my room, I was in tears. I was crying. I was on the phone with my now girlfriend of mine. And at the time, I said, the I don't know what the fuck to do here. Like, I'm really lost. And I'm really sad. And I don't want to do this anymore. Like I didn't even know if I want to be alive. And I booked a ticket. I got online and I said, what's open? I just Googled, like, what? What countries are open. Now hotels in Costa Rica popped up. Costa Rica popped up. And I said, Fuck, I'll go to Costa Rica for a couple weeks. I'll come back. Well, got to Costa Rica. I didn't come back. I was gone for two and a half years. I went and I just chased the opens. Honestly, it was like Costa Rica, then Mexico and Panama and Colombia, and Uruguay and Argentina and all these things. Finally, the last on the list and up in Japan. And
JT 26:51
you're so and you're sober this entire time? No, no, God, no. Oh, so sorry.
Nick Pollard 26:59
So I did a year sober. I did a year fully, totally sober. On the year of the day of my year anniversary, I had an itch that needed to be scratched. And I said, you know, I think I'm okay. And I was. And that was interesting. Because I did something that most people in the alcoholic world don't think can do, which is to go back. But I'd spent a year like hailing and talking and doing nothing but getting this out of my heart. Did
JT 27:29
you have any apprehension about I guess who the you know, be the people displays or but like, putting out that out there? Because Because you you know these guidelines, right? You know, how the rooms are about that kind of stuff? Did you you're like hey, man, this is my life. And this work for me, as you know, getting sober or staying sober is a individual thing. And I'm, you
Nick Pollard 27:50
know, it's really only until recently that I've been able to say it.
JT 27:53
Listen, man, I I went in the room. And I told them that my daughter, she was at college and she was coming home and it was like, she I asked her my wife asked her something. Hey, what meal would you like? And she's like, I want I want dad to make chicken marsala. And I told them that I bought a bottle of Marsala wine. And you know, I'm cooking it and the vapor comes up right at the seam and it hits you in the face and and it was even it was even the process of opening the bottle. Sure, it seemed very familiar to me. Sure. And I thought that was the place to tell people that write my experience because it's supposed to be
Nick Pollard 28:39
haul I
JT 28:42
did freakin wrong. And you
Nick Pollard 28:46
inhaled vapor. You probably had to get a first aid ship.
JT 28:49
No, no, you're right. I mean, this this old guy late I mean, he was pissed me. I mean, I guess I guess I get it for him. And he didn't mean he wants the best for me. I didn't know him but but that's the whole point of those rooms. So so I can see that you know, I I asked you that question because if I put myself in your shoes I would feel even if you were 100% of work for you just to a apprehensive because
Nick Pollard 29:18
oh my god yeah. So for years you know for the for the first year after 22 I wouldn't really talk about it. And you'll notice I don't call myself an alcoholic anymore. I call myself recovered alcoholic and the reason I call myself as recovered is because I've recovered and I I'm never going to fall in the rooms of AAA. They helped me get where I got like they helped me they helped me come out of the darkness and they gave me friends when nobody would give me friends. They gave me love and nobody would give me a lot of your get emotional talking about it. But the idea that everyone's sick forever is fucking toxic shit. Like if it helps you to say that you're not Calling forever to keep you off the sawston do that. I appreciate that. Yeah. But don't put that shit on me. Because I've lived my life in a way that has been pretty awful. And I've seen some things that most people don't see. And it's not the worst of what humanity has to offer, by the way. That's right. And I've made it to heal those things. And to tell me that I have to do it, you're subscribed or you know, your pre described or predetermined way. In order for it to be valid as fucking horseshit.
JT 30:34
The biggest part of it that I've come to realize recently is the brutal honesty part. Yeah. Like that since common thread, right. I don't care where you go.
Nick Pollard 30:48
That's the right. Part sucks. Yeah,
JT 30:52
no. And what I appreciate about people going back and you're talking to someone who hasn't been to a room and well over a year, right. And then not doing the other work that I should be doing, with the mind with the operating system that I have, right? Is that, you know, they talk about things being cunning, you can trick yourself, you trick yourself into thinking you got it figured out. Or not even that you've got it figured out. You don't realize in real time that that needle has fallen back into the
Nick Pollard 31:29
groove. That's a great way to say that. That's a really great way to say that. And that scares the shit out of me. Man, what a cool way to say that the needle is falling back into the groove never even occurred to me to think of it that way.
JT 31:38
Yeah, I've been doing some soul searching here. Oh, boy.
Nick Pollard 31:44
That's really what it happened. Was is 21. And I started recording videos in May, or May or June of 2021. And from that I ended up Do I think I did shit. I recorded a video every day from May until June and then there may until probably September, and then I did three a day from September until December, nothing was happening. Nothing, nothing was happening. And then December 3 of 21, my first video it and it was off to the races. It's been exponential ever since. So you know, I get 1% growth. You know, depending on the month, like one one to 2%. That's a lot. I'm 400. Guy.
JT 32:36
That's a lot. Yeah, it's big. Compound Interest stuff like, right, yeah,
Nick Pollard 32:39
he's doing that.
JT 32:44
Having done all that work, how do you describe your relationship like as far as dopamine, and the feedback you're getting from others? And with the social media? Again, I'm only asking this because it's something I've struggled with. But it's
Nick Pollard 33:01
100%. addictive? Yeah. And, you know, in your questionnaire, you actually asked, is there a habit that you're trying to work on right now? And it's incidentally, it's my social media habit. Mine too. Right.
JT 33:12
I really I honestly realized that I'm the scene triggers like, Yeah, I'd say when I say I relapsed. I just gave me real estate. Yeah,
Nick Pollard 33:21
that's where you went to write you went to social media, because dz and you're not getting drunk. So you're not turning into an asshole, but you're kind of turning into an asshole. And you're in you're negating your own goals, and it's making you unhappy and, and all those things, right. So it was actually this morning I started working on. So I woke up struggling to sleep last few days, that often happens around my birthday, which April 8. So just kind of struggling to get any rest and I woke up this morning at 330. Normally, I would just be pissed off. Yeah. And like to kick it back to sleep. Mad. And today, it was like, You know what, I'm gonna use it. Just gonna, I'm just gonna use it. And I got up. And I made myself some coffee and I pet my cats. And I read a little bit I wrote my journals were like big things to do every day. I mean, I ended up you know, being able to get out of a piece of content. You know, I wrote a from a newsletter and then edited two pieces I wrote and recorded yesterday and like, I got a ton done between like three in the morning and 730. And then they're like, Well, shit, I'm still up. So let's go to the gym and went to the gym and a podcast and then it took a nap. And now I'm here with you. And so I ended up using it. But normally what I would have done was get up and just scrolled for five hours.
JT 34:36
We're so we're so insane. We aren't even seen. Yeah,
Nick Pollard 34:42
they would have wasted an entire day. laying on the couch scrolling in my underwear, right? Where what I decided to do today and I wrote it so I've been writing this is something I've learned about habit. Maybe this is applicable to what we're talking about is if I write in my I journal that I will or will not do something I generally do it. Right. So I wrote in my journal, I will not check my social media today. And I haven't I just have it, because my mind turns on, like, the minute I pick up my phone like, oh, you said you were gonna do that. Right? One of the things I believe about confidence is really important in this, like your habits dictate your confidence, because the more shit you do that you say you'll do, defines how confident you become as a person.
JT 35:27
It's the truth man, because you can you can put stuff out to the world, and you can even convince the other world or the rest of the world. But, you know, like, you know, I had I had Tyler Hamilton Otto Hampson was a professional cyclist, he raced with Lance Armstrong right on that team. And he talked about his, he had board meetings with himself at two in the morning, no matter what they put out to the world, no matter how much everyone believed them, is like I couldn't, I couldn't run from it. Right. Like it was it was haunting me. Because I knew the truth. So yeah, and then going back to the social media, I honestly, I think, I truly think this is a an experiment happening in real time. And you when we talk about what our baseline dopamine we can get into add, and whether, you know, your thoughts on whether people would add just have a lower baseline of dopamine, it's one of the reasons we just like kind of chase things. They give us that. But yeah, it's it. I mean, it scares me I, you know, I've been an airport, I'll look around, and I go, if so, if there was a time machine, right, somebody came back from 19. Not to go back that far. 85 they had what they would think we lost their fucking minds. They would look around and go, you've lost your minds? Well,
Nick Pollard 36:54
yeah. So that's true. And if you look at if you look at how literature and art play out, over time, you'll see that the rise of the zombie movie has come from social media. Yeah. Because we there's nobody thinking anymore. It's part of the reason I love podcasting. Part of the reason I've thought about starting my own, but I'm on enough of them that I don't mean. But like, I've thought about starting a podcast, because there's some there's some real thinkers that I really, you know, I really respect. Chris Williamson is one of those that I like, Chris, if you listen to this, you know, hit a brother up like I want to be on your channel, like here real soon. Helped me launch this book. But like, Ryan Holiday, people that are studying the stoic, studying young, old minds, and really understanding like, we've been having the same problems, all of humanity.
JT 38:02
Listen, we like to think we're the smartest people because we happen to live in 2024. I mean, Ryan holidays book, The obstacle is away. You're a perfect example of that exact thing. What stands in the way becomes the way. Right, right, right. And
Nick Pollard 38:19
so, you know, here I am, five years after six years, seven years after first getting sober. And then three years after I did it again. And then, you know, now I'm mostly sober. I live a sober ish life. I don't drink very often, but when I do I do. I find joy. In knowing that I figured out something Wow, this is really gonna hurt my feelings to say, I find joy in knowing that I found something in 2018 that not a lot of people figure out which is the purpose and meaning of life is to die and to love. That's it. We are here to get our hearts broken. That's it. We're here to get our hearts broken. It's the yin and the yang, right? We are here to love and to die. We're born to die. In that timeline. We get to love. That's the only thing that makes this experience worth doing. Then you see people you know, worshipping at the altar is you know, Jocko Willink. And, you know, even the Greenbrae guy you were talking about, like, I appreciate those people. I think they're very inspirational, but like 99.999% of people don't want to be those people. They think they do. Right, who wouldn't want to be as tough as Greenberg? Yeah, it's tough as a Navy SEAL. Right. But I don't I'll tell you why. Because I also recognize that to be that tough means you have to engage in your own psychopathy.
JT 39:43
Yeah, and I think that was interesting conversation with Ben was talking about that is we have an identity, right? Especially when as especially as young men, and we know that prefrontal cortex isn't developed so a certain age and And you know, there is there is something I've ever heard you talk about the relationship of pain. And you were talking more about I believe in emotional pain, but but the ability for someone to suffer and get through something. There, there is something that we find admirable, admirable, and that and there is a connection you get to others. It's like, I would think that when you're at your rock bottom with and somebody else's with their rock bottom, and you go through that process together, you're going to have to fucking like them. But you've gone through it with them, and you're going to feel a sense of connection. So what was interesting about his story was to hear all of that ripped away because of his own actions. And then how do you rebuild from that? And that was
Nick Pollard 40:47
a really, yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, it was all taken from you. I can't imagine that, you know, that. I mean, I can imagine a sort of pain that way and that my life has kind of destroyed and everything I've worked for taken away, but like, that was his total
JT 41:00
16 years. 16 years of his whole life. Right? Yeah. And you've watched a brotherhood, and you've watched DAVE Yes, right. You've watched your your best friends die. And now this thing that you're part of his gone, and I thought it was just a fascinating conversation. But we're talking about you now. So let's, let's talk about bencher. So that
Nick Pollard 41:20
was a really painful moment, I think, just a moment ago, it was to recognize that what I just recognized was, I've been saying this for a long time, I believed for a long time that the meaning of life I used to say that love and adventure was all there is. But when you whittle down what is adventure, right, that's risking death. And when you riddled whittle down love, there is no whittling down that love is love. And I think that we're here to love people. I think we're here to love ourselves. I think we're here to engage in that Agave whole cumin love, whole world love. And, you know, without sounding too hokey? Like, I'm gonna break out the beads and start chanting with you if we do it, right. We're also here to die. Yeah. And when you recognize your own mortality, and then you recognize the gift of that mortality is love and is pain. The gift is the pain, then everything kind of falls into place.
JT 42:18
It's beautifully said, Ma'am, I think Yeah. And I think that's what scares me not to keep harping on social media has it tricks us into thinking that we got to feel good all the time. Right?
Nick Pollard 42:28
Well, yeah, you've got a whole generation of kids that are think they're pieces of shit. Because they don't have Ferraris. I mean, I used to not be able to see what Tom Brady drove, now I do, right? And compare that to the life of the average everyday human. And they start to think that that's what they're supposed to be. And not everybody's supposed to be that. Right, there will always be people ahead of you that it's always going to be and, and I do well, like I do well for myself, you know, able to afford to live in California anyway. And that's, that's a win. There's nothing to be said about that. Right. And in relatively comfort, you know, comforting these are, you know, comfortably so I don't have a yacht. And I drive a paid off Nissan Pathfinder, it's got a dent in the front fender. And I have a two bedroom apartment that I fucking adore. And I'm a stone's throw from the beach. And I walked there every day. And it's a simple life. But that simplicity is by design. Right? And I think what we have is we've created so most people are living by default anyway. Right? Most people are living in this kind of, I hate to use the tape references, but you know, the kind of the matrix of what's real and what's not. And when I pulled myself out of that, when I when I unplugged from what is what does everybody else say I should have? What does everybody else have? And I asked myself what I wanted? You know, Chris Williamson actually asked us quite a question better than I do, which what would you want to want? And when I asked myself, What would I want to want? I came up with the idea that I would like peace and contentment in small and large doses based on need. I want to live in a I want to live in a warm place near a beach. And I want to experience the good things when I'm experiencing the good things. And remember what Kurt Vonnegut said, which is, when things are well, I beg of you to stop and murmur or exclaim at some point, that this isn't nice. I don't know what is. That's it. That is the meaning of it all for me. Like what would I want to want? It's like, peace and contentment when I need it. At a pretty quiet, calm life, with enough money that I don't have to worry about my family while I'm alive, because I'm dying to zero. It's coming for us all. Yep, every single one of us. No one here gets out alive. Jim Morrison says Need
JT 45:00
Somebody wants to find out more about you? They liked what they hear and this, potentially they want to work with you as a coach, where they find you?
Nick Pollard 45:08
Well, it's easy to find me the people just pleaser.com or my name, Nick pollack.com. I'll point you at my website, you can book a call with me one on one, they're the most effective thing you can do if you want to, if you really want to know my thoughts is get on my mailing list. Both those pages will point you to that as well. But if you want to follow me on social media that helps me a lot at the people displays or on Instagram or YouTube or Tik Tok or Facebook provided tick tock still around in a week anyway. Never know. So I'm easy to find out the people displays or just put that in or if you just Google people displays where you'll find me. I'm the only bald guy walking around the streets of Huntington Beach every day. If you want to come take a walk with me as well, there's
JT 45:48
some there's something to be said about. I'm going to guess. I already have 4342 43 and 43 balding white guy walking down the beach and have captured the attention of a lot of people. And that's not by accident. So keep doing what you're doing.
Nick Pollard 46:06
I don't know if it's not by I mean it was by accident. Accident but now it's it's man it's I'm really blessed. I really am. People stopped me on the streets and stuff now and they tell me that you know, you'd be amazed how many people tell me I got him sober. I mean, it boggles my mind. Literally bug. I mean, it's it's fantastic. How many people tell me every day but I got him sober. It's two to three day
JT 46:34
is that hard to take at first when you have people reach out? Like specifically if people come and they've really dropped some heavy stuff on you like hey, what you said, and then fill in the blank. Is there a is there a responsibility? I don't know if responsibility the right word but but how did you take that first?
Nick Pollard 46:54
Jordan Peterson talks about this? I didn't know what he meant at first when he said most people aren't real happy to see him. They're in pain. Right? And he I've had people I've had people reach out to me and say that they were in a tub ready to die like in a bathtub about to kill themselves and watching tick tock and they got out because of what I've said. And it is scary to know that that kind of influence is it to know that I have that kind of influence is really scary. And then to know that there are others that have that kind of influence is also really scary. So like you know be careful what you look for kids. Here's there's some bad bad folks out there on here. Yeah, there is.
JT 47:56
I appreciate you taking the time with us. I know a million people reach out to you. I just appreciate everything you said and what you do. It's a it's a breath of fresh air on on you're using a platform like you've you've gone into the Deathstar ship and are teaching the force in a positive way. Like, I don't know if that's a great analogy, but it's certainly
Nick Pollard 48:18
drying. You know, I appreciate the compliment a lot. I love what you guys are doing. I think it's I think, to quote your your sign behind you there are habits have massive consequences. I don't know if enough people pay close enough attention to what what is a habit? And, you know, if you make a habit out of seeking you, you will find you but it's something you have to do every day. Because you are elusive. And people don't realize that they are elusive. And who you are is ever changing. So don't think that the person you found yesterday is going to be who you find today because you'd learn something every minute your life
